jakemikey
Aug 24, 10:22 PM
Core 2s will be nice, but if you've already got a Core-based Mac now, I wouldn't rush to sell it. The Meroms coming out are an "initial" version according to Intel, designed to be pin-compatible as an easy replacement for the Yonahs.
In addition, Core 2 Duo vs Core Duo performance increase really isn't all that dramatic:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808
Certainly not worth buying one to upgrade your current Yonah machine, assuming that really would be possible without some sort of EFI update.
While Merom isn't much faster than Yonah, Conroe in an iMac would be superb with the faster clock and bus speeds.
In addition, Core 2 Duo vs Core Duo performance increase really isn't all that dramatic:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808
Certainly not worth buying one to upgrade your current Yonah machine, assuming that really would be possible without some sort of EFI update.
While Merom isn't much faster than Yonah, Conroe in an iMac would be superb with the faster clock and bus speeds.
likemyorbs
Mar 22, 12:35 PM
But then, I don't believe that's what many really believe when they say it... instead, I get the vibe that what they mean to say is 'why can't you just closet yourself and act straight?'.
I do think some people genuinely believe it's a choice. It's hard for some people to imagine that not everyone's minds work the same as theirs, and not just related to homosexuality. Chances are, someone who considers homosexuality a choice likely has issues with other groups of people as well.
I do think some people genuinely believe it's a choice. It's hard for some people to imagine that not everyone's minds work the same as theirs, and not just related to homosexuality. Chances are, someone who considers homosexuality a choice likely has issues with other groups of people as well.
JRM PowerPod
Aug 7, 04:54 AM
Yes living in th UK is like punishment for being born at the moment. Can I stay with you in Aussie? I have a G5 and a MacBook you can use. :D
To think you guys thought it was punishment to ship us here. I laugh
I already have one of each, though my MacBook does randomly shut down. But another G5, hmmmm, well i don't use my Quad with 4gb 1tb 7800 to its potential anyway.
Once again the UK is redundant. Wait until we play England in the Ashes, omg, we are going to destroy you.
To think you guys thought it was punishment to ship us here. I laugh
I already have one of each, though my MacBook does randomly shut down. But another G5, hmmmm, well i don't use my Quad with 4gb 1tb 7800 to its potential anyway.
Once again the UK is redundant. Wait until we play England in the Ashes, omg, we are going to destroy you.
hulugu
Nov 29, 08:58 PM
Why are we still talking about the Zune. Does anyone really care? It's just another mp3 player among so many others behind iPod. :rolleyes:
It will never match the iPod's popularity, ever.
I think the feeling was, this is the last full measure for anyone expecting to knock the iPod off its pedestal without a serious sea-change in technology, to mix my metaphors a little.
Sony tried, Dell tried, Creative is trying, and really only Samsung and SanDisk are having any success. The real threat it appeared was from Microsoft who could use their money and leverage the support of WMA, the XBox, and other technologies to support the Zune.
Instead, Microsoft made a clunky box, reinvented the software wheel, and severed the Zune from all the PlaysForSure companies. The only real leverage the Zune has is it's connection with the XBox, which the iPod can do as well. The Zune is a massive duplication of effort, and will surely do more to eliminate the smaller players in the market, such as SanDisk, than affect the iPod's sales.
Furthermore, I would ask anyone to avoid buying the Zune, no one should reward Microsoft for releasing a product that is effectively unfinished. Really for $250.00 you get to do their beta testing, and that's not a privilege anyone should have to endure.
It will never match the iPod's popularity, ever.
I think the feeling was, this is the last full measure for anyone expecting to knock the iPod off its pedestal without a serious sea-change in technology, to mix my metaphors a little.
Sony tried, Dell tried, Creative is trying, and really only Samsung and SanDisk are having any success. The real threat it appeared was from Microsoft who could use their money and leverage the support of WMA, the XBox, and other technologies to support the Zune.
Instead, Microsoft made a clunky box, reinvented the software wheel, and severed the Zune from all the PlaysForSure companies. The only real leverage the Zune has is it's connection with the XBox, which the iPod can do as well. The Zune is a massive duplication of effort, and will surely do more to eliminate the smaller players in the market, such as SanDisk, than affect the iPod's sales.
Furthermore, I would ask anyone to avoid buying the Zune, no one should reward Microsoft for releasing a product that is effectively unfinished. Really for $250.00 you get to do their beta testing, and that's not a privilege anyone should have to endure.
MCIowaRulz
Apr 12, 09:25 PM
The ancient "rendering video..." progress bar you get to watch, which locks you out of every other function.
Annoyed the crap out of me... I edited a 1hr documentary slide show and it was a 20 minutes render on my (former) Macbook Pro i7 with 8 GB RAM.
I'm waiting patently for the iMac 2011 SB and will order the day they are available
Annoyed the crap out of me... I edited a 1hr documentary slide show and it was a 20 minutes render on my (former) Macbook Pro i7 with 8 GB RAM.
I'm waiting patently for the iMac 2011 SB and will order the day they are available
macbookairman
Apr 12, 09:34 PM
Better yet, 9 to 5 mac has a video stream.
http://www.9to5mac.com/61109/nab-2011/
http://www.9to5mac.com/61109/nab-2011/
Erwin-Br
Apr 21, 12:30 PM
If this were Google or M$ you apologists would be foaming at the mouth.
The anti-Google folks on this forum have used the privacy issue as ammunition against Google for quite some time now. To my surprise (or not really) all of the sudden privacy is not important to then anymore.
At least with Google you KNOW data is collected.
The anti-Google folks on this forum have used the privacy issue as ammunition against Google for quite some time now. To my surprise (or not really) all of the sudden privacy is not important to then anymore.
At least with Google you KNOW data is collected.
RayLancer
Sep 30, 03:40 PM
did u get that weird watermarks like on wolfboy's post a few posts up?
I don't have the cases on me, I just got it this morning before heading to work. I'll be sure to post back. The cases are cheap for $4 each and I'm planning on replacing them at some point soon.
I don't have the cases on me, I just got it this morning before heading to work. I'll be sure to post back. The cases are cheap for $4 each and I'm planning on replacing them at some point soon.
milbournosphere
Jan 28, 03:28 PM
Here's my entry into this thread. This is my recently purchased WJ out in Death Valley for New Years. This was about 6 miles out on a backroad trail, just as we got to where we were going to pitch the tents. It was cold, but the hiking was great. It looks like a stock photo but I swear it's real :). It's an '04 HO V8 Limited, all the bells and whistles, basically stock. So far it's been great. Previous owner was a firefighter, and I think this is one of the few cars that can actually pull off the red.
ccunning
Jul 14, 11:28 AM
I just saw this and though it was pretty interesting:
Sony also introduced their own small-format 90.0 � 94.0 mm disk, similar to the others but somewhat simpler in construction than the AmDisk. The first computer to use this format was the HP-150 of 1983, and Sony also used them fairly widely on their line of MSX computers. Other than this the format suffered from a similar fate as the other new formats; the 5�-inch format simply had too much market share. Things changed dramatically in 1984 when Apple Computer selected the format for their new Macintosh computers. By 1989 the 3�-inch was outselling the 5�-inch.
Here is the source:
Sony's 3.5" Floppy Disk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_drive#The_3.C2.BD-inch_microfloppy_diskette)
Sony also introduced their own small-format 90.0 � 94.0 mm disk, similar to the others but somewhat simpler in construction than the AmDisk. The first computer to use this format was the HP-150 of 1983, and Sony also used them fairly widely on their line of MSX computers. Other than this the format suffered from a similar fate as the other new formats; the 5�-inch format simply had too much market share. Things changed dramatically in 1984 when Apple Computer selected the format for their new Macintosh computers. By 1989 the 3�-inch was outselling the 5�-inch.
Here is the source:
Sony's 3.5" Floppy Disk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_drive#The_3.C2.BD-inch_microfloppy_diskette)
mrthieme
Nov 29, 05:04 PM
This is my first post and I'm sorry if it drags on too long but I'm a recovering audiophile and I've been dreaming of a simple to use Apple experience from start to finish for home theater. A one box device would have to be bigger than the itv prototype but in the world of HT processors, amps, and disc players, the average size is much larger and all AV furniture can accomodate it. It could easily contain all the mentioned features of itv, a tuner, an optical drive, and modular hard drives similar to the Macpro to expand storage as needs (or finances) dictate. A surround sound decoder and multi channel preamp outputs would complete the list for me. I think a multichannel amp built in would be great, but heat might be excessive unless class D is used. Leaving out the amps would lead to another possible product, powered speakers and a sub. I'm picturing the style of the Hifi for Ipod. They could be sold solo or in pairs and would need only line level inputs. A price break to buy a 5.1 or 7.1 system would be nice.
A full featured remote would be needed, but nothing too intimidating or confusing. The click wheel can serve a number of functions by itself, eliminating some buttons, and we have all been taught how to navigate menus and exucute commands with it already, making the learning curve very minor. An lcd screen on the remote to view songs and albums without turning on the TV would make sense to me, similar to Sonos systems. The remote ends up looking like an oversized Ipod with the buttons added as needed.
I know this is quite a lot to ask for a first foray into this market for Apple but I think they could do alot with AV hardware, with a little help from established high end companies this could be awesome.
A full featured remote would be needed, but nothing too intimidating or confusing. The click wheel can serve a number of functions by itself, eliminating some buttons, and we have all been taught how to navigate menus and exucute commands with it already, making the learning curve very minor. An lcd screen on the remote to view songs and albums without turning on the TV would make sense to me, similar to Sonos systems. The remote ends up looking like an oversized Ipod with the buttons added as needed.
I know this is quite a lot to ask for a first foray into this market for Apple but I think they could do alot with AV hardware, with a little help from established high end companies this could be awesome.
kadajawi
Sep 6, 10:13 AM
The 24" iMac can be upgraded to a 7600GT video card. Anyone know how decent that is? What about the x1600?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
MacSA
Aug 29, 09:00 AM
I think it's ridiculous to not put a Core 2 Duo chip into the Mini. While I'm not waiting for Merom, to upgrade one of your machines with a faster version of the same soon-to-be-out-of-date chip is silly.
But this IS Apple were talking about lol. Anyway the article doesnt mention which 1.66/1.83 chips they will use. Probably Core Duo (Yonah) though. If that were the case, they could, but i'm sure they won't, cut the prices a little further now that Core 2 Duo is out.
But this IS Apple were talking about lol. Anyway the article doesnt mention which 1.66/1.83 chips they will use. Probably Core Duo (Yonah) though. If that were the case, they could, but i'm sure they won't, cut the prices a little further now that Core 2 Duo is out.
Dont Hurt Me
Mar 19, 03:23 PM
I don't argue that their strategy is wrong. They are a profitable, debt-free company. They obviously have some clue as to what's going on.
However, as a Mac lover on a budget, I hate only having the option of an iMac or an eMac. I dislike both of them. I dislike the design and I dislike that they are essentually unupgradable. If I am going to spend money on a product, I had better like looking at it. I also don't want to have to use a G4 MDD as it's old technology. Granted, it's life is far from over but I get the impression that Apple is telling me that unless I am willing to pony up $2500.00 - $3000.00, that my only options are either old or unupgradable products.
A Bargain PC may be a POS, but for a good group of people, it's all they can afford...and I am almost to that point. My old computer can only take me so much farther.this is exactley why marketshare has dwindled for Mac, they tell you its our way ( powermac) or if you dont submit then we will cripple the Hell out of the othermacs and leave you wanting, so the world says screw you Apple and buys a PC with everything they want in it and makes do with a OS that is less then perfect. This is why Apples new computer sales went to 1.7% of all new sales. Apple is a dictator mini monopoly.
However, as a Mac lover on a budget, I hate only having the option of an iMac or an eMac. I dislike both of them. I dislike the design and I dislike that they are essentually unupgradable. If I am going to spend money on a product, I had better like looking at it. I also don't want to have to use a G4 MDD as it's old technology. Granted, it's life is far from over but I get the impression that Apple is telling me that unless I am willing to pony up $2500.00 - $3000.00, that my only options are either old or unupgradable products.
A Bargain PC may be a POS, but for a good group of people, it's all they can afford...and I am almost to that point. My old computer can only take me so much farther.this is exactley why marketshare has dwindled for Mac, they tell you its our way ( powermac) or if you dont submit then we will cripple the Hell out of the othermacs and leave you wanting, so the world says screw you Apple and buys a PC with everything they want in it and makes do with a OS that is less then perfect. This is why Apples new computer sales went to 1.7% of all new sales. Apple is a dictator mini monopoly.
SiliconAddict
Jul 18, 11:57 AM
meh. I already have Blockbuster's online rental. If I want to take something with me on the go I rent it, rip it and away I go. Yes this has more instant gratification but I'm a patiant person so meh...for those who aren't on a Netflix or Blockbuster plan I can see this as being nice...as long as its priced right.
FireStar
Oct 1, 05:58 PM
Not sure. I do however, find it funny, that some of the major case manufacturers take so long to release cases. I realize the understanding is that Apple doesn't leak the specs until the day of the Keynote announcement. But, there were eBay sellers with silicone cases available the day of the Keynote (they may have even been up before, I didn't look) that fit perfectly. I bought some of them. So there ARE leaks in China, and the cheap case manufacturers get their hands on them successfully, so I don't know why the major manufacturers aren't privy to the same leaks.
I find it depressing. :( Sorta. I would like more cases out sooner, at least from major case manufacturers. (Especially Switcheasy. :() I however think I'm gonna get a Griffin Reveal (Case with clear backing) so I can have the durability of a case and the customization of a skin. (For the most part.)
I find it depressing. :( Sorta. I would like more cases out sooner, at least from major case manufacturers. (Especially Switcheasy. :() I however think I'm gonna get a Griffin Reveal (Case with clear backing) so I can have the durability of a case and the customization of a skin. (For the most part.)
7on
Sep 7, 08:26 AM
I checked around at comp usa, best buy and even the apple store to see if the mini's they had in stock would be reduced in price because of the new ones that came out.
Best buy and Comp USA had no clue that new models were released and would not budge in price. I dont know what the apple store policy is.
Shouldnt comp usa and best buy reduce the price of the core solo minis they have left?
you can get them refurbed off the Apple site for less. 479 USD for the old lowend, 649 USD for the old high end.
Best buy and Comp USA had no clue that new models were released and would not budge in price. I dont know what the apple store policy is.
Shouldnt comp usa and best buy reduce the price of the core solo minis they have left?
you can get them refurbed off the Apple site for less. 479 USD for the old lowend, 649 USD for the old high end.
lifeinhd
Feb 28, 08:01 PM
15! *internet props*, at one point i had a blue and white g3, a ruby imac g3, and a few others...unfortunatly my mom was tired of all the "useless" (in her eyes) computers and made me discard them (the only computers i have every gotten rid of that werent compleatly dead)
now all im starting again, with this mdd g4 :D
As much as I hate clutter, I'm a bit of a collector as well. Usually, whenever I get a free Mac (and most of the Macs I get are free), I sell them, but whenever I come across a free classic or really old Mac, I figure "eh, it isn't worth anything, might as well keep it..." and the collection builds from there. So far, I've got an SE/30, two PowerBook 180s, an eMac, a PowerMac G4 AGP (I think), an iMac G3, a Performa 5200CD, and an Apple //e. They all boot, but one of the PBs is iffy. I've also owned two 1.25GHz PowerBook G4s, a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0, two 1.83GHz Mac Minis, a 1.66GHz Mac Mini, several iMac G5s, a G4 Quicksilver, a MacBook Pro, an iMac G4, and maybe some others I'm forgetting. Only ones I paid for were some of the iMac G5s, the MBP, and two of the Mac Minis.
And I've only been an Apple user since 2006 :p
now all im starting again, with this mdd g4 :D
As much as I hate clutter, I'm a bit of a collector as well. Usually, whenever I get a free Mac (and most of the Macs I get are free), I sell them, but whenever I come across a free classic or really old Mac, I figure "eh, it isn't worth anything, might as well keep it..." and the collection builds from there. So far, I've got an SE/30, two PowerBook 180s, an eMac, a PowerMac G4 AGP (I think), an iMac G3, a Performa 5200CD, and an Apple //e. They all boot, but one of the PBs is iffy. I've also owned two 1.25GHz PowerBook G4s, a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0, two 1.83GHz Mac Minis, a 1.66GHz Mac Mini, several iMac G5s, a G4 Quicksilver, a MacBook Pro, an iMac G4, and maybe some others I'm forgetting. Only ones I paid for were some of the iMac G5s, the MBP, and two of the Mac Minis.
And I've only been an Apple user since 2006 :p
Reach9
Mar 20, 07:10 PM
Really, Gaddafi deserves it.
US is trying to be as coy as possible by saying that other people are taking charge of this, and bringing in UAE and Qatar on their side.
I find this great, and can't wait until the lunatic leader gets justice.
US is trying to be as coy as possible by saying that other people are taking charge of this, and bringing in UAE and Qatar on their side.
I find this great, and can't wait until the lunatic leader gets justice.
HecubusPro
Aug 29, 05:21 PM
Quite a few people on this board want Apple to simply announce the next Macbook Pro with Merom, even if it has delayed shipping. That would, however, compel students who need computers now to look elsewhere.
(1000th post - WOOT!)
I agree with you completely on this point, without having heard it put that way before. And congrats on the 1K post. :)
(1000th post - WOOT!)
I agree with you completely on this point, without having heard it put that way before. And congrats on the 1K post. :)
Bonsai1214
Sep 20, 12:30 AM
ah, thanks clarifying that. it was kind of hard to tell from some of the pictures. their website said something about "direct access". is it hard to get to the buttons? especially the sleep button?
cinder1280
Nov 23, 10:05 AM
Hi,
I have to order a new workstation in the beginning of dec.
I want the Powermac in a top config with the 30" Display.
Now I wonder to wait the release of the 8core system for two reasons:
If the price will be equal to the actuall one of the quad 3Ghz: Fine, I ll buy the mac pro with clovertown
If the clovertown system will be much more expensive than the actuall 3 ghz, maybe the 3 ghz will get a little bit cheaper. So i will buy the 3 Ghz system.
Should I wait to Jan or Feb ? ( The release in November just a rumor :( )
I dont know what to do. It will be my workstation for the next 4 or 5 ähm thousand years ;)
Sorry for my bad English, I m working on it ;)
Greets CindeR
I have to order a new workstation in the beginning of dec.
I want the Powermac in a top config with the 30" Display.
Now I wonder to wait the release of the 8core system for two reasons:
If the price will be equal to the actuall one of the quad 3Ghz: Fine, I ll buy the mac pro with clovertown
If the clovertown system will be much more expensive than the actuall 3 ghz, maybe the 3 ghz will get a little bit cheaper. So i will buy the 3 Ghz system.
Should I wait to Jan or Feb ? ( The release in November just a rumor :( )
I dont know what to do. It will be my workstation for the next 4 or 5 ähm thousand years ;)
Sorry for my bad English, I m working on it ;)
Greets CindeR
rasmasyean
Mar 27, 08:46 AM
The AWACS involved are owned and operated by NATO. There may not even be US personnel on board.
Not according to this guy...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42285224#42285224
He even says that European Command is headed by a US Admiral.
There are rumours of UK and US special forces on the ground coordinating strikes as well.
I'm sure they've been "on the ground" even before the "no-fly zone". And most of them prolly speak the language and look like them. Especially if they plan to individually target forces that will open up an invasion of a town. They would need to gather personal intel with some of the rebel leaders and go out to scout and designate specific targets. Just if they die, they become one of the rebel casualties or something. That velcro patch with the US flag under it is just Hollywood BS. :p
Not according to this guy...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42285224#42285224
He even says that European Command is headed by a US Admiral.
There are rumours of UK and US special forces on the ground coordinating strikes as well.
I'm sure they've been "on the ground" even before the "no-fly zone". And most of them prolly speak the language and look like them. Especially if they plan to individually target forces that will open up an invasion of a town. They would need to gather personal intel with some of the rebel leaders and go out to scout and designate specific targets. Just if they die, they become one of the rebel casualties or something. That velcro patch with the US flag under it is just Hollywood BS. :p
Mainyehc
Nov 28, 02:39 PM
What I meant by moderately high ante was the dollars spent, not the product.
I don't think we'll know what MS executives will do when Gates leaves until he's gone. Even Mr. B.
Don't get me wrong - I think the Zune is crap. However it's always foolish to ignore the 800 pound gorilla, even when it's lazy and clueless. They can wake up and buy clues.
Yes, of course... that "gorilla"-thing is a fairly good point. But don't forget about that pervasive M$ corporate culture. I'm not talking about laborious employees, like programmers or designers, which are mostly very talented people (it's not their fault - at least, not of all of them - that they have to deal with dumb business decisions and craptastic 10-20-year-old-code). I'm talking about management, which, as it seems, is quite rotten at Microsoft, and probably not just at the core. And to make things worse, there is no "Jobs" waiting on the wings to salvage Microsoft from itself, and that will be the sole reason why they won't last long (would've Apple had, if not for Steve and NeXT?)...
As for buying clues, sure! Maybe they'll hire someone from outside. But naaah, they're too proud to change their ways, I guess... They didn't do it in 20 years time, so why would they now? Sure, the XBox was a small glimpse of "innovation" (albeit not THAT useful for their survival as a company), but meh, a bit lackluster while compared with iPod+iTunes (which, ironically, were partly developed by outsiders) and the effect they had on Apple...
And as for their investment, I STILL don't get it! I mean, they didn't even bother about condensing the Zune to be more attractive... Is its thickness a side effect of having a WiFi chip inside, or a reflex of M$'s design team's incompetence at "refreshing" a 3rd party product? Was it an item SO EXPENSIVE to "develop"? And they didn't took the steps to develop an interesting alternative to the click wheel, anyway. AND its interface, from what I can tell (I haven't had the chance to try it yet, as I live in Europe... :rolleyes: :D ), is nothing special, it's just an iPod-like menu scheme with some wallpapers plastered underneath it... Big deal!
Look at the nano and the shuffle (and even the 5G). Now there are some examples of some impressive and probably expensive industrial design...
I don't think we'll know what MS executives will do when Gates leaves until he's gone. Even Mr. B.
Don't get me wrong - I think the Zune is crap. However it's always foolish to ignore the 800 pound gorilla, even when it's lazy and clueless. They can wake up and buy clues.
Yes, of course... that "gorilla"-thing is a fairly good point. But don't forget about that pervasive M$ corporate culture. I'm not talking about laborious employees, like programmers or designers, which are mostly very talented people (it's not their fault - at least, not of all of them - that they have to deal with dumb business decisions and craptastic 10-20-year-old-code). I'm talking about management, which, as it seems, is quite rotten at Microsoft, and probably not just at the core. And to make things worse, there is no "Jobs" waiting on the wings to salvage Microsoft from itself, and that will be the sole reason why they won't last long (would've Apple had, if not for Steve and NeXT?)...
As for buying clues, sure! Maybe they'll hire someone from outside. But naaah, they're too proud to change their ways, I guess... They didn't do it in 20 years time, so why would they now? Sure, the XBox was a small glimpse of "innovation" (albeit not THAT useful for their survival as a company), but meh, a bit lackluster while compared with iPod+iTunes (which, ironically, were partly developed by outsiders) and the effect they had on Apple...
And as for their investment, I STILL don't get it! I mean, they didn't even bother about condensing the Zune to be more attractive... Is its thickness a side effect of having a WiFi chip inside, or a reflex of M$'s design team's incompetence at "refreshing" a 3rd party product? Was it an item SO EXPENSIVE to "develop"? And they didn't took the steps to develop an interesting alternative to the click wheel, anyway. AND its interface, from what I can tell (I haven't had the chance to try it yet, as I live in Europe... :rolleyes: :D ), is nothing special, it's just an iPod-like menu scheme with some wallpapers plastered underneath it... Big deal!
Look at the nano and the shuffle (and even the 5G). Now there are some examples of some impressive and probably expensive industrial design...
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